OVERVIEW
As a long time Verizon FIOS DVR user, I’ve always been curious about TIVO, however, the steep price to get started always kept me away. I finally decided to take the plunge. Here is a synopsis of the transition, especially for those on Verizon FIOS.
COST ANALYSIS:
My current setup on Verizon:
The only way I’d ever consider a TIVO would be if Lifetime was included. A six tuner TIVO + Lifetime runs almost $900 on the TIVO Website. Even though I have five TVs, the teenager doesn’t want “TV” and only wants a Roku, so now I only need a 4 room system. A 6-tuner Roamio Plus and three Minis ($100 each) would cost $1200. Considering I pay $5 per cable card per month, Im hitting my break-even in 20 months in a Roamio Plus solution.
With the “Summer Sale” I could get two TiVo Roamio Basic DVRs (8-tuners total), both with lifetime, for $600 total. Add two Minis and Im up to $800. Taking into account $10 for two cable cards per month and my break-even is 14.5 months – Much better! If I ever do decide to “cut the cord”, I like that the basic Roamio can do OTA as well as streaming Netflix, Amazon Prime, and PLEX. PLEX was another big factor for me since my 900+ DVD collection has been transferred to my PLEX server.
PURCHASE:
I bought two TiVo Roamio Basic DVRs for $600 with free shipping. I ordered on Sunday and the TiVos arrived on Thursday. I bought two 1st Gen TiVo Minis on Amazon.com for $100 each (on sale) plus free Prime two day shipping. The Minis arrived on Wednesday. I also bought $75 worth of new wiring on Amazon, which included CAT 6 Ethernet cables, HDMI cables, RG6 patch cables, RG6 2.4 Ghz splitters, Component cables, a TiVo Mini Composite/Component cable kit and a TiVo Roamio Composite Cable.
SETUP PLANNING:
I decided Im going to run both my legacy Verizon setup (including all DVRs and STBs) alongside the new TIVO setup. I did this for a few reasons.
Towards the end of the 30 day trial, the family would decide if we can live with TiVo or need to stick with Verizon.
Update: The dual system worked flawlessly.
Update 2: We decided to keep TIVO.
INSTALLATION:
I would rate the TiVo setup as a “difficult” setup. I could never imagine my parents or even some of my less tech savy friends doing this setup on their own. Aside from the usual crawling behind cabinets and running wires, the cable card setup had me flustered, but more on that later.
Each Verizon STB is connected to the network via a RG6 cable & MoCa enabled network. At each box, I elected to split the RG6 line to service the Verizon STB and the TiVo at the same time. Aside from some tighter than usual coax connectors, each RG6 cable split easily and I was able to get each Roamio and Mini connected.
In the rooms where the Minis went, there was no close or available Ethernet wiring, so I was relying on the Verizon ActionTec Rev I router’s MoCa network and built in bridge to provide connectivity. The ActionTec MoCa network worked flawlessly.
Luckily, at each Roamio location, there was convenient Ethernet access and each was connected to the network with the CAT 6 wires purchased at Amazon. Just as a reminder to others thinking about the Roamio Basic, it does NOT have built in MoCa networking like the Mini does. The Plus and Pro does, but I read somewhere that they also create their own MoCa network that has to be disabled if you have the ActionTec running – but I didn’t have to deal with this.
The Roamios were installed first and during the setup, they prompted for the Cable Card installation. I inserted the card provided by Verizon and up popped the Cable Card activation screen. I called the Verizon Cable Card activation line, which was automated, and the computer insisted on activating both Cable Cards simultaneously. Since I was doing one Roamio at a time, I had to hang up and unbox/install the second Roamio and install the cable card on that as well. Once both were ready for activation, I redialed the activation number. I entered the CC Id, Host Id, and Data Id of both cards and was told activation was successful! Again, I couldn’t imagine my parents doing this.
I finished the TiVo setup and it went into an update mode. The upgrade hit 72% on both Roamios and I waited for it to continue. And waited…. And waited…. Finally 2 hours later I suspected cable card issues and went on the FIOS Tech Support website for some insight. The online troubleshooter had me start an online chat with tech support (at 12:45am) and after providing the agent with the CC Id, Host Id, Data Id, and S/N of the cards, the TiVos came to life. The serial number seemed to be very important to the Verizon FIOS representative.
One issue: I subscribe to FIOS Ultimate + HBO STARZ and my HBO and STARZ cannels were missing from the guide. I had to go into the TiVo settings and enable those channels manually so they would show up.
PROBLEMS:
I setup some shows to record overnight and the next day noticed streaming worked from the living room to bedroom TiVo but not the other direction. The bedroom box could “see” and display shows from the living room box but gave me a V90 error when attempting to play.
I also setup two TiVo Mini v1 boxes in a family room and in another bedroom. The bedroom Mini could see both Roamios, but would only connect to the bedroom Roamio. The second Mini had even worse luck – it could see both Roamios but connect to neither.
I called TiVo support and we worked on the room to room streaming issue first. We did several reboots and still no fix. We even reset the ActionTec router and still no luck. I then decided to set static IPs for all four devices and after one more round of resets, everything worked; room to room streaming and Mini to Roamio connections.
TIVO VS FIOS DVR PROS AND CONS:
Here are the things the FIOS DVR does better:
Here are things the TiVo does better:
Here are some things that the TiVo could improve on:
CONCLUSION
So, it has been 30 days, and we are keeping TIVO. It really is a better product and the money savings is substantial. We are getting ready to turn in our FIOS equipment but I'm wondering if Verizon will let us keep the HD STB for free so I can continue ordering UFC PPV?? Probably wishful thinking on my part. I guess I can try getting it on the UFC's Roku channel if Verizon doesn't cooperate.
I also recently upgraded the Hard Drives in the TIVOs to 3TB each with Western Digital WD30EURX, which was a pretty painless proposition (Note: I bought a cellphone tool repair kit for the upgrde. I needed the T8 and T10 screwdrivers specifically). This time I used the FIOS Support Twitter account to get my cards re-paired, and it went even quicker and easier than the first time.
Im a big Slingbox guy, so I really don't see the need to get the TIVO Stream, though downloading of shows and movies to my Android/IOS devices is really tempting. Im also thinking of purchasing a Slide Remote for the Living Room. These might make good Christmas gifts to myself.
After hearing about my experience with TIVO, my 60+ year old father decided to get the Basic TIVO w/ Lifetime too. He's a former Charter Cable/DISH Satellite subscriber who decided to cut the cord and switched to Netflix. He has never owned a DVR before and uses the Basic Roamio for OTA only. He had no problem setting it up (he had a simple setup, one TV and no cable card) and LOVES IT.
As a long time Verizon FIOS DVR user, I’ve always been curious about TIVO, however, the steep price to get started always kept me away. I finally decided to take the plunge. Here is a synopsis of the transition, especially for those on Verizon FIOS.
COST ANALYSIS:
My current setup on Verizon:
- 1 Two Tuner MRDVR 160GB + 1TB ESATA Media Expander
- 1 Two Tuner MRDVR 500GB
- 1 HD STB
- 2 SD STBs
- Total cost = $65 / month
The only way I’d ever consider a TIVO would be if Lifetime was included. A six tuner TIVO + Lifetime runs almost $900 on the TIVO Website. Even though I have five TVs, the teenager doesn’t want “TV” and only wants a Roku, so now I only need a 4 room system. A 6-tuner Roamio Plus and three Minis ($100 each) would cost $1200. Considering I pay $5 per cable card per month, Im hitting my break-even in 20 months in a Roamio Plus solution.
With the “Summer Sale” I could get two TiVo Roamio Basic DVRs (8-tuners total), both with lifetime, for $600 total. Add two Minis and Im up to $800. Taking into account $10 for two cable cards per month and my break-even is 14.5 months – Much better! If I ever do decide to “cut the cord”, I like that the basic Roamio can do OTA as well as streaming Netflix, Amazon Prime, and PLEX. PLEX was another big factor for me since my 900+ DVD collection has been transferred to my PLEX server.
PURCHASE:
I bought two TiVo Roamio Basic DVRs for $600 with free shipping. I ordered on Sunday and the TiVos arrived on Thursday. I bought two 1st Gen TiVo Minis on Amazon.com for $100 each (on sale) plus free Prime two day shipping. The Minis arrived on Wednesday. I also bought $75 worth of new wiring on Amazon, which included CAT 6 Ethernet cables, HDMI cables, RG6 patch cables, RG6 2.4 Ghz splitters, Component cables, a TiVo Mini Composite/Component cable kit and a TiVo Roamio Composite Cable.
SETUP PLANNING:
I decided Im going to run both my legacy Verizon setup (including all DVRs and STBs) alongside the new TIVO setup. I did this for a few reasons.
- In the event we decide we don’t like the TiVo service and decide to return the Roamios to TiVo and the Minis to Amazon within the 30 day window, we still have our original setup with no loss of service or recordings.
- There would be a period of a few days where household members may get “flustered” by the new system and revert to Verizon DVR.
Towards the end of the 30 day trial, the family would decide if we can live with TiVo or need to stick with Verizon.
Update: The dual system worked flawlessly.
Update 2: We decided to keep TIVO.
INSTALLATION:
I would rate the TiVo setup as a “difficult” setup. I could never imagine my parents or even some of my less tech savy friends doing this setup on their own. Aside from the usual crawling behind cabinets and running wires, the cable card setup had me flustered, but more on that later.
Each Verizon STB is connected to the network via a RG6 cable & MoCa enabled network. At each box, I elected to split the RG6 line to service the Verizon STB and the TiVo at the same time. Aside from some tighter than usual coax connectors, each RG6 cable split easily and I was able to get each Roamio and Mini connected.
In the rooms where the Minis went, there was no close or available Ethernet wiring, so I was relying on the Verizon ActionTec Rev I router’s MoCa network and built in bridge to provide connectivity. The ActionTec MoCa network worked flawlessly.
Luckily, at each Roamio location, there was convenient Ethernet access and each was connected to the network with the CAT 6 wires purchased at Amazon. Just as a reminder to others thinking about the Roamio Basic, it does NOT have built in MoCa networking like the Mini does. The Plus and Pro does, but I read somewhere that they also create their own MoCa network that has to be disabled if you have the ActionTec running – but I didn’t have to deal with this.
The Roamios were installed first and during the setup, they prompted for the Cable Card installation. I inserted the card provided by Verizon and up popped the Cable Card activation screen. I called the Verizon Cable Card activation line, which was automated, and the computer insisted on activating both Cable Cards simultaneously. Since I was doing one Roamio at a time, I had to hang up and unbox/install the second Roamio and install the cable card on that as well. Once both were ready for activation, I redialed the activation number. I entered the CC Id, Host Id, and Data Id of both cards and was told activation was successful! Again, I couldn’t imagine my parents doing this.
I finished the TiVo setup and it went into an update mode. The upgrade hit 72% on both Roamios and I waited for it to continue. And waited…. And waited…. Finally 2 hours later I suspected cable card issues and went on the FIOS Tech Support website for some insight. The online troubleshooter had me start an online chat with tech support (at 12:45am) and after providing the agent with the CC Id, Host Id, Data Id, and S/N of the cards, the TiVos came to life. The serial number seemed to be very important to the Verizon FIOS representative.
One issue: I subscribe to FIOS Ultimate + HBO STARZ and my HBO and STARZ cannels were missing from the guide. I had to go into the TiVo settings and enable those channels manually so they would show up.
PROBLEMS:
I setup some shows to record overnight and the next day noticed streaming worked from the living room to bedroom TiVo but not the other direction. The bedroom box could “see” and display shows from the living room box but gave me a V90 error when attempting to play.
I also setup two TiVo Mini v1 boxes in a family room and in another bedroom. The bedroom Mini could see both Roamios, but would only connect to the bedroom Roamio. The second Mini had even worse luck – it could see both Roamios but connect to neither.
I called TiVo support and we worked on the room to room streaming issue first. We did several reboots and still no fix. We even reset the ActionTec router and still no luck. I then decided to set static IPs for all four devices and after one more round of resets, everything worked; room to room streaming and Mini to Roamio connections.
TIVO VS FIOS DVR PROS AND CONS:
Here are the things the FIOS DVR does better:
- In my opinion, the TiVo DVR UI seems crowded, cartoon-y, and has too much advertising in it. I’d prefer the my shows list to be wider so I could read the whole name of the show. The FIOS DVR is much cleaner, better organized, and aesthetically pleasing.
- The FIOS DVR has less "in your face" advertising. I HATE the advertising on the TIVO pause bar!
- FIOS allows multiple Series Passes per show. On TIVO, I’d like to be able to set two OnePasses per show, one for reruns (like Big Bang Theory) and another for new episodes only.
- FIOS lets you specify a particular start time in the Series Pass settings. In the OnePass recording options, I’d like to specify a particular start time also, like 8pm showings only.
- FIOS never records repeats. At times, the TiVo seems to record repeats even though I specify "new only." I think this may be an issue with bad/stale guide data that TIVO does not update frequently enough.
- FIOS has not missed a recording in the last four years for me, and I record A LOT of shows. The TiVo has missed the recording of a couple shows and started one recording late, in the first two weeks!
- FIOS has an instantaneous 30 second skip. I wish the 30 second skip was instantaneous like on the FIOS DVR. I also would like it if the skip time (both forwards and back) were configurable, like on FIOS. FIOS allows 10 secs, 30 secs, 1 min, and 5 mins.
- All FIOS DVRs have component out on them (they work simultaneously with HDMI). Would have liked to see a component output on the base TiVo.
- FIOS has multiple sets of "favorite" channels. TIVO needs to have two or three distinct sets of favorites. Also allow the user to apply the favorites when "flipping" channels like on FIOS - I’d like to limit the flips to the favorites currently selected.
- I would say the FIOS guide is 99.9% accurate while the TIVO guide is in the 90% range. The TiVo guide seems less trustworthy, less reliable, out of date, and lacking info, especially compared with the FIOS guide.
- I miss the built in clock on the front of the FIOS DVR STB as well as the on screen caller ID.
- FIOS has OnDemand and PPV. TIVO has no OnDemand, but hey, I knew that going in.
- FIOS has a “Stop” button on their remote. Not having a Stop button on the TIVO remote is jarring, though I am trying to get used to it.
- The “old style” FIOS remote control (RC1445302) allows me to access more of my TV’s features and menus. This allows me to set my TV’s sleep timer without the need for a second remote.
- On the FIOS system, regardless of which TV in my house Im watching, when I go to record a program, FIOS lets me specify which DVR (Living Room or Bedroom) I want it to record on. With TIVO I seem to be limited to the Roamio Im on. FIOS also allows more management control of a DVR from other STBs in the house.
Here are things the TiVo does better:
- Speed! Using the remote is a pleasure on the TiVo. I can push a button and the TiVo responds immediately. The FIOS DVRs are so slow and clunky – sometimes I’d push a button and have to wait 2 to 3 seconds for a response… ugh!
- I got to admit, I was a little apprehensive at first, but TiVo integrating Netflix and Amazon Prime into their system is pretty ground breaking. I have some old 90’s shows I like to record and didn’t realize they were even offered by Netflix. Now, when I go to watch those recordings, I switch to Netflix to get better quality and no commercials – very nice. Now, I do think TiVo could work on integrating them better, but it’s a good effort. (Note: after 30 days in, Im liking this more and more!)
- PLEX support! Im a huge PLEX supporter and have ripped my entire DVD collection onto a Umbuntu Plex Media Server. Of course, the Roku does stream it better, but TiVo does it “well enough.” I would like to see the TiVo include my Plex content in searches and OnePass, like it does for Netflix.
- Able to set a one-time recording to “Keep until I delete” before it records. I still do not understand, after all these years, the FIOS DVR does not allow you to “protect” a show until AFTER it completes recording. (Just so there is no confusion, then FIOS DVR allows you to set series recordings to “Keep until I delete”, but NOT one-time recordings – ahead of time.)
- RF Remotes are nice, no more direct line of sight required and they work from greater distances.
- More storage with upgradability. (Note: I ended up upgrading both TIVOs to 3TB)
Here are some things that the TiVo could improve on:
- Would have liked to seen the plus/pro offered during the summer sale.
- Would like to see HBOGO/HBONOW, Showtime Anytime, MaxGo, Epix, Starz, and Encore providers alongside Netflix and Amazon.
- Would like to see Plex included in the TiVo search results and OnePass.
- Would be nice to have an option to remap HD channels to SD channel numbers.
- Sometimes when Im watching a recording and I go into the Tivo menu, then return to my show, I lose audio for 10 seconds.
- Would be nice if the Mini’s would automatically grab a tuner from the “least busy” TIVO instead of having to manually switch between the two TIVOs I have.
- Would be nice if TIVO included an OPTION to show all recording from both TIVOs in one list. In fact, it would be nice if the two TIVOs could work together as a team to manage the eight streams (since I have two Basic Roamios) I have available.
- Would like it if we had access to FIOS OnDemand and Pay Per View, but it is really a FIOS issue, beyond TIVO's control.
CONCLUSION
So, it has been 30 days, and we are keeping TIVO. It really is a better product and the money savings is substantial. We are getting ready to turn in our FIOS equipment but I'm wondering if Verizon will let us keep the HD STB for free so I can continue ordering UFC PPV?? Probably wishful thinking on my part. I guess I can try getting it on the UFC's Roku channel if Verizon doesn't cooperate.
I also recently upgraded the Hard Drives in the TIVOs to 3TB each with Western Digital WD30EURX, which was a pretty painless proposition (Note: I bought a cellphone tool repair kit for the upgrde. I needed the T8 and T10 screwdrivers specifically). This time I used the FIOS Support Twitter account to get my cards re-paired, and it went even quicker and easier than the first time.
Im a big Slingbox guy, so I really don't see the need to get the TIVO Stream, though downloading of shows and movies to my Android/IOS devices is really tempting. Im also thinking of purchasing a Slide Remote for the Living Room. These might make good Christmas gifts to myself.
After hearing about my experience with TIVO, my 60+ year old father decided to get the Basic TIVO w/ Lifetime too. He's a former Charter Cable/DISH Satellite subscriber who decided to cut the cord and switched to Netflix. He has never owned a DVR before and uses the Basic Roamio for OTA only. He had no problem setting it up (he had a simple setup, one TV and no cable card) and LOVES IT.
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